Tuesday, November 04, 2008

Immigration Complications

So if DH and I wanted to move to New Zealand, we couldn't, because we don't meet their weight guidelines. A German doctor who has emigrated to Australia, whose services are needed by the community he lives in, has been denied permanent residency because one of his sons has Down's Syndrome, and it was ruled that the son's condition would be "likely to result in a significant and ongoing cost to the Australian community." In the UK, fat children are being taken away by the state. And the insanity is not limited to other countries. The U.S. is now requiring all female immigrants ages 11 to 26 get the controversial vaccine Gardasil, whereas it is only recommended for female residents of the same age in the U.S. And what is driving all these restrictions? Shared health care cost concerns. Whether because of nationalized health care or group health care plans, low costs must be maintained in order for service to be provided.

What does this really result in? Government tyranny, and bad precedents that will only get worse. Will the government start directly overseeing the food you eat? Will the government attach some monitor to you to make sure you get what they consider is enough exercise? Will the government force pregnant women who are carrying children with Down's Syndrome or other equal conditions that can cause lifelong health issues to abort? Will older people, or anybody with a terminal illness, be "exterminated"? Where does it stop? I am bi-polar, and the medications I require to avoid suicidal fixations are rather expensive. But everybody at one point in their life or another, and often at more than one point, needs some kind of costly health care. None of our bodies are perfect. And health care improvements can be best brought about by a chance for profit. Do we want to live in a world without continuing improvements in medical care through medical research?

I don't know what the ideal health care plan is. But I think all of us would best be served by keeping the government jackboots out.

(And don't get me started on the hypocrisy of forcing legal immigrants to get otherwise optional vaccines but showering illegal immigrants with free health care and housing and making no requirements of them.)


Scott said...

Soylent green is people.

Kim said...

Shouldn't a country have standards for its immigrants? In this country we give financial aid to those who are disabled, by allowing in those with disabilities aren't we just setting ourselves up to be paying them for the rest of their lives? I personally would feel better with some kind of standard set. I don't want to be paying for someone for the rest of their lives because we let them in knowing they wouldn't be a productive member of society (by productive I mean having the ability to earn a living). The books I've read about Ellis Island and immigration say that there have always been physical standards, the standards themselves may have changed but there has always been some kind of standard that has to be achieved.

Barb the Evil Genius said...

Where to start? Okay, first of all, there is a huge difference between having standards for a country's immigrants in regards to earning a living and overall health, and forcing immigrants to receive a vaccination which: a)has not yet been proved to be completely safe b)doesn't completely get rid of the risk of the disease c)is postulating that you might possibly get this disease in the future, not how healthy you are now d)is a standard not required for current residents. Shouldn't they be just as healthy? Have your daughters received Gardasil? If not, why?

And what about the hypocrisy of letting so many "unproductive members of society" live here illegally? What's the point of even jumping through hoops to become a legal citizen if you can just stay here illegally and get everything for free?

So my husband and I are not productive members of society because we are overweight? Another country should not want us to become citizens? That's a slap in the face, don't you think? Frankly, I take that as a personal insult and I don't even know you.

Do you agree with the government taking away people's kids because they are overweight? Is it any of your or the government's business?

The doctor who wants residency is a *very* productive member of Australian society. If you read the article, he's the only doctor of his specialty in a huge area, and Australia is desperate for doctors and nurses. He's not asking for government assistance for his son; he just loves Australia and wants to live there. And I think parents and those who care about Down's Syndrome kids would take it very personally that you don't see them as productive members of society. A huge proportion of them can hold down a job and earn a salary.

Do you realize where this "productive members of society" idea gets you? It gets you Nazi Germany culling the "useless eaters" like the current Pope's 14-year-old cousin who had Down's Syndrome and was taken away by the Nazis one day and never came back. Is this what you want?

Kim said...

You may not know me but I know you through Loopers.

I think you need to take a step back and reread what I wrote. I never said you were nonproductive. All I asked was shouldn't we have standards? Did I say anything specific about overweight people? Looking at my comments, no I didn't. Maybe you didn't mean to assume a lot but you did.

Now, I will address some of your comments.

I do think it's important to set a standard for incoming citizens. I'm personally acquainted with someone who is so morbidly obese that he cannot work. He is on government assistance because he cannot get around. He literally has eaten himself into this situation, there is no medical reason that he is like this. Unfortunately we as taxpayers will be paying him to live for the rest of his life. I'm sure he is not the only person out there in this situation. The best solution would be to not offer assistance to anyone, that's what charities are for. Whenever you start taking from the government there are strings attached...

I won't go into the stories of the children who were taken away from their parents. I wasn't able to find enough information on the issue to make an informed comment.

Should we let people who cannot provide for themselves into the country? I'm not speaking of illegal immigrants, those people broke the law and shouldn't be afforded any rights or privileges. But just because they are here doesn't mean we shouldn't have any standards for those seeking citizenship.

As to the Gardasil issue. I don't agree with the government requiring immunizations of anyone. That said, no one is forcing these girls to get the vaccine because no one is forcing their parents to immigrate. Unfortunately they are asking to come here and the government has set that as one of the hoops they must jump through.

And yes I do think it's important to consider whether someone is a productive member of society when they are applying for citizenship or residency. Can they support themselves so that they will not have to be taken care of by the rest of the taxpayers. Here is another way to say it, would you be willing to pay for someone to live here knowing they will never be able to provide for themselves? I'm not.

Unfortunately our government is set up in such a way that they provide certain things to those who cannot provide for themselves, what that means is that they have to make difficult decisions about who can and cannot immigrate. Those foreign countries offer even more by offering health care so they have to look at the cost of allowing someone in with major health problems. Now this says nothing about those people who are already here. That's the thing about being born a citizen, we don't need to prove our worth. I don't think having standards for immigrants leads to what happened in Nazi Germany. When you are asking for something from the government (i.e. to be able to immigrate) you have to expect to jump through their hoops.

Before you blow up at me, I'm not making any personal comments about you or your family. I never have. All I'm doing is discussing my view of the issues you wrote about, which seems to differ from your own. I'm hoping you just misunderstood the tone of my last message.

kate5kiwis said...

difficult topic.
and how fat is fat?
(the original article is not letting me link to it)

i was chatting to BD this morning and saying how funny that the 5kiwis are eating the same foods that MY parents fed ME during my childhood - whole grain dark brown breads, (baguettes are the only white bread i get and that's for special moments lol), unprocessed as possible food, loads of fresh fruit and veggies, olives, hummus. minimal meat (though as a kid we had more meat i think)... BD grew up with processed food, packets of chippies (crisps? lol), white bread etc and it's really interesting that we are eating different stuff now.

it all started when he offered me tomato on brown toast for brekkie and i asked him if he had that as a kid. he 'fessed that he hated tomatoes as a kid.
so i am feeling all influential

and it is kinda creepy - that "big brother" feeling - cos as much as i love state-funded health here in NZ, we still have complete choice as to childhood immunisation or not - i like freedom of choice.
and i like knowing that if i wait long enough, there's a freed hospital bed in which to recover after surgery.
blah blah
mwah X
PS the lads twisted my arm (which was not hard at all lol) to grab the MAMMA MIA MOVIE today.. we have a couple of jobs to do in town and then.... dancing queen here we come!!!!!!!!

kate5kiwis said...

there's a freed hospital bed
*waving placards and yelling*

of course, the spelling nazi means
"free hospital bed"

and you already knew that.
my i had to make sure that i did.

(and now you'll probably put all thoughts of moving to NZ outta your heads cos it's NUTSville down here!!!!!!!!!)
mwah X

Barb the Evil Genius said...

Kate, it can't be anymore nutsville in NZ than it is over here. :)

I don't know what the exact parameters are for being allowed to move to NZ but I know it's based on waist measurement and BMI but that's a whole 'nother mess because by BMI standards a lot of very physically fit people are "overweight."

And speaking of, I need to get back on the exercise wagon. I'm gonna try ballet with the Dancer.

kate5kiwis said...

I need to get back on the exercise wagon. I'm gonna try ballet with the Dancer.

Go BARB!!!
i am feeling the fittest i've been in a very l-o-n-g time.
seeing muscles i've never seen before too.

i hope i can keep it up,
stay. on. the. wagon.
yep X

Barbara Frank said...

Just two thoughts:

1) I'm trying to remember where in the Bible God says that our primary job here on earth is to be productive, especially as the world defines it.

2) This is the kind of stuff that happens when people are being supported by the government, which it was not designed to do. Our founding fathers tried to prevent this, but we screwed it up.

Hope you're finally feeling better, Barb.